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Riddles in the Dark AUJ-EE: Hail Fellow and Fewmets!

A look at the first movie extended edition and more material for the second movie on Riddles in the Dark! In Dave’s absence, Corey Olsen and...

A look at the first movie extended edition and more material for the second movie on Riddles in the Dark!

In Dave’s absence, Corey Olsen and Trish Lambert talk about the highlights of the extended edition of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey. But first they warm up by considering some additional material for The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug, including the new soundtrack list, the Denny’s featurette, and the scene that caused a few sparks to fly in the last episode. Along the way, the digestive system of dragons was considered in some detail.

Download: .mp3 (right click and choose “Save As…” to download)

This is a riddle-less episode.

Many thanks to the Lonely Mountain Band for allowing our use of their wonderful music to accompany the audio episodes. Season 2 sees excerpts from their new album “Songs of the Dwarves.” Intro: Battle of Azanulbizar; Outro: The Sevenfold Meeting

  1. Carolyn November 24, 2013 at 6:15 pm #

    In the first age the elves stuggle against Morgoth and the Dwarves are on the side of the Elves. There was little friction between the two. Then Beren came to Doriath and fell in love with Lúthien the daughter of Eru Thingol King of Doriath. Long story short, Thingol didn’t want a human to marry his daughter and sent Beren to retrieve a Silmaril (considered impossible) from the crown of Morgoth. If he would return with the Silmaril he could marry Lúthien. So Beren went on his journey for that Silmaril.

    In the meanwhile Húrin brought Nauglamir from the wreckage of Nargothrond aka The Necklace of the Dwarves to Doriath and gave it to Eru Thingol. As payment for the care Húrin’s family had received while he was imprisoned by Morgoth. The necklace was a gift from the dwarves to Finrod Felagund of Nargothrond.

    Beren returned with a Silmaril and Thingol had the Dwarves of Belegost reforge Nauglamir to hold the Silmaril. Thingol then asked the dwarves of Nogrod to place the Silmaril into the necklace. It became the most beautiful jewelry ever created in Arda.

    The dwarves of Nogrod saw its beauty and greedily claimed it from Thingol and claiming it as just payment for their labours (they created the thousand caves of Menegroth) and that Húrin and Thingol no right to appropriate the Dwarves gift to Finrod.

    Thingol knew they sought the Silmaril and insulted the dwarves for uncouth, stunted people, ordered them to depart from Doriath without any payment. The dwarves slew Thingol (one of the greatest elves who ever lived) The dwarves who were at Nogrod heard what happened and attacked Doriath sacking it and taking vast treasures. Beren heard what happened and together with an army of Laiquendi (elves) attacked the dwarves on their way back to Nogrod the dwarves that tried to escape were killed by ents and the treasure was cast into the river Ascar. Except Beren kept Nauglamir and took it with him to Lúthien which eventually led to the destruction of Doriath by the sons of Feanor cuz of their oath.

    It looks like the extended version of the Hobbit may refer to this with Thrain’s disdainful actions toward Thranduil.

    • Timdalf November 27, 2013 at 8:01 am #

      Well, to add to the complications about just what transpires between Thorin and Thranduil in Erebor:
      I am transcribing the Director’s and Writers’ Commentary for AUJ EE. During the prologue scene when Thorin has opened the chest of diamonds before Thranduil we get the following exchange between Jackson and Boyens:

      And this is first change in our Extended Cut just a couple of extra shots with what are called the white gems of Lasgelion.

      PB: Lasgalen…* (chuckles)

      PJ: Lasgalen, thank you! No, that’s why you’re here: that’s one of the reason you’re here: to teach me to talk properly! Because in the Theatrical Version this was just a very passing moment to introduce the notion of the feud between the Dwarves and the Elves. But these white gems that he is denied here are actually featured in greater detail in the second and third film. I always find that these Extended Cuts given that they usually come on the market a month or two before the next movie is due out. As in fact this one is. I always find them useful because you can take things and embellish them a little bit because they are going to lead into the subsequent movies.

      PB: There is a whole story behind those gems which…. Wow, big earthquake.

      PJ: We just had an earthquake. Quite a big one.

      PB: That was a big one. Wow!

      PJ: Shall we just carry on talking through the earthquake as if we haven’t… Almost synchronized with the arrival of the dragon.

      PB: Actually that must have been a big one to rock this building.

      And then they go on to other subjects. DRAT! So their explanation of these gems gets cut off by of all things an earthquake. Now the only ref I could find in all of HoMe to “Lasgalen” is this:

      * This is very obscure! Thranduil is mentioned as renaming Mirkwood Eryn Lasgalen Wood of Green Leaves. And in HoMe X p 155 Lasgalen is a Sindarin name for Laurelin (one of the Two Trees). But I find no reference to any White Gems of Lasgalen.

      So – are these gems (which seem to be in the form of a necklace) the Nauglamir or not? Are they (in the commentary, which is off the cuff) confusing the two. Do they in the 2nd and 3rd films make them the Nauglamir and the commentary is just not mentioning it (thanks to the dratted eq!)… Most quandrous, it is!

      • Trish November 27, 2013 at 9:29 am #

        Oh that IS frustrating!!! Stupid earthquake!!!! It’s sounding as if they are including a Nauglamir-type story line, only calling it something different to avoid copyright issues.

        So interesting. Tolkien “borrowed” from his bigger story when he wrote The Hobbit; in Thranduil’s case he is “Thingol-like” and not Thingol himself. Jackson appears to be doing the same thing!!

        • Timdalf November 27, 2013 at 11:55 am #

          Fascinating theory about copyright issues and it makes perfect sense. Food for Mythmooooot cud chewing!!

  2. Murray November 25, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

    Wikipedia claims that ‘fewmets’ is indeed an ancient word meaning ‘droppings’, but those of any hunted animal, not a dragon’s. That came recently, for fantasy role-playing.

    Alas, the Oxford Dictionary (which I’m sure JRRT would prefer) shows no such word. Hmmm….

    • Timdalf November 27, 2013 at 8:11 am #

      Well, in my Webster’s Unabridged, the word is there. But spelled “fumet” (as in (“fumes”?) I think I first ran into it in TH White’s “Once and Future King” where some Sir or King or other (Pellinore?) is hunting The Questing Beast, if I remember right.

      Apparently I did remember right! Good me!! ;-)

      And for fewmets/fumets go here:

      • Trish November 27, 2013 at 9:33 am #

        Hmmm…my few and newly acquired philological senses are tingling. I wonder if fumet and fume have the same root????

    • Trish November 27, 2013 at 9:31 am #

      I went through the same exercise after the episode, but decided not to mess with the coolness of the title and episode content by trying to include this explanation. But thanks for including the clarification here…we should consider it a footnote!

  3. Duane Watson November 26, 2013 at 7:05 pm #

    I’ve had a couple of things on my mind since viewing the Extended Edition, and which were touched on in the discussion. The first is the timeline of the movies versus those of the book. I’m still not sure how long it’s supposed to have been since Smaug’s attack on Erebor. I think it’s longer than 40 years: We see the attack on Dale and Erebor, the exodus of the dwarves, and Thorin “never forgiving/forgetting” at his forge, and then there is the transition to young Bilbo, who is pretty small at the time. If Bilbo is still 50 in the movie, then it would have to be longer than 40 years since the attack of Smaug. The suggestion of the prophecies and portents also suggests that it’s been quite a while, so that’s still up the air for me.

    (On a side note, I think that we have to be careful of assuming that because the film cuts to something right after something else that it occurs near the same time. For example, I think Radagast’s discovery of the sickness in the Greenwood and Dol Guldur actually occur well before Gandalf and Bilbo are discussing wizards, but that Jackson et al put the scene there for thematic reasons.)

    The second thought that occurred to me is Thranduil’s presence at Erebor as Thorin is leading the survivors out. It struck me as odd that Thranduil would already have his army at Erebor that quickly. However, given the new scene explaining the conflict between the Wood Elves and the Dwarves, I wonder if Thranduil was intending the army to be backup in his negotiations to get what he viewed as rightfully his; it also gives him motivation for bringing the army to Erebor later.

  4. Timdalf November 27, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

    Here is another tidbit. If you freezeframe the Bag End scene in the Prologue with Bilbo and Frodo just when Bilbo picks up some of the party invitations from his desk, you will see there a manuscript of the poem “Errantry” from The Adventures of Tom Bombadil. The opening verse is clearly there and the beginning of the second. The shots just before are not clear enough to make out what is on the writing stand next to the desk. Nor what is on the mantle piece other than the Baggins Family Tree.

  5. Timdalf November 28, 2013 at 8:10 am #

    Concerning the TOR.n summary of the 20 minutes of selected scenes at the Fan Event on Nov 4th. I was there for the NYC version and sw them all. And I will say that the summary is quite accurate with minimal opinions, mostly Just the facts, Ma’am (Said Sgt. Friday)!… So Prof Corey’s trepidations voiced in this session are a bit too cautious.
    Also, I wonder if the Thorin line “If this ends in fire, we shall all burn together,” isn’t being taken a bit too harshly? Perhaps Thorin is saying, “If my actions provoke the dragon, I will not hesitate to burn with the rest of you.” This is a bit more heroic than “If I provoke the dragon, you will join me in my suicidal quest,” which is the way many are taking the line to imply.

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