Another Riddles in the Dark Digest hits the streets!
Trish and Dave are on a roll. In this digest they cover spiders, talking purses, and magic ventriloquism as they review and discuss the input and comments from analysts and listeners about Riddles in the Dark Episode 4 and Episode 5.
Yes or No: Will there be a talking purse in The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey?
Download: .mp3 (right click and choose “Save As…” to download)
Just want to say that I enjoy Dave and Trish. It is good to get many voices discussing the work of Tolkien. It can’t be easy putting these shows together, and I certainly enjoy and appreciate the efforts. Good on ya!!!
Hey Dave and Trish!
I was listening to the new Digest Episode, and I heard where you were talking about the still of Thorin in the woods with Orcrist and covered in webs, and how that made me believe that Thorin would be present with the other dwarves for the battle with the spiders. You asked if I was listening to let you guys know where I found that still.
I actually can’t remember where I originally found the still I sent you, but I did know that it was a screen capture from one of the production videos. I went back today and checked, and it is in fact from Production Video #4. It’s from a clip that starts at 6:44 and ends at 6:48, and is of the dwarves running through Mirkwood, covered in webs. In the clip, you can even hear Kili at the beginning shouting, “They’re coming back”, which has to refer to the spiders.
Hope this helps, and I love the show!
Tony
Thanks Tony! I’m going to go back and check that out and bring it up on one of our future Digests. Appreciate you researching this!
I have to say I’m really enjoying these digests! Listening to the last 15 minutes of this one right now. It’s really nice to have my own comments read and addressed!
Also, this is completely unrelated to RiTD, but there isn’t a comments section for “How to Read Tolkien and Why”, so I had to post it somewhere else. The page says that the “On Fairy-stories” essay can be found in the book The Monsters and the Critics, but I think this book is out of print now, too. You might want to mention that it’s in the new re-issue of Tales of the Perilous Realm that was re-released a few years ago. That’s probably the best way to read it these days.
Anyway, keep up the great RiTD Digest work!
Thanks Michael. Also, I highly recommend the BOOK on “On Fairy Stories” edited by Verlyn Flieger and Douglas Anderson. It might be overkill for some people, but if you want to understand the speech and the essay (created at two completely different points in time) in a larger context and see how the essay that we read today evolved, this is a great source.
I believe that the book is out of print, but my local used book store had at least 2 if not 3 copies of it last time I visited. Anyone who is interested, let me know and I’ll get a copy for you and mail it!
Enjoyed the new digest episode alot. Great job. I did want to make one comment in regard to something Trish said. I actually believe that the separation of Thorin from the rest of the Company does serve a purpose to the story, at least to Bilbo’s story/character. In Thorin’s absence be rescues the dwarves from the spiders and coordinates the escape from the elves. He really comes into his own as a character, beyond being a bumbling hobbit.
My 2 cents.
Keep up the good work.
Chris (Felagundian)
Very good point, Chris of the House of Felegund!
When I make observations like this one, I have my “movie goer” hat on, not my “Tolkien sort-of-scholar” hat on.
The emergence of the hero in Bilbo is absolutely critical…especially now that we know that the Took-Baggins dichotomy will not be part of the film (thanks to info gathered at ComicCon). I do, however, think that this emergence could take place even with Thorin somehow part of the scene (as he appears to be from the clip Tony shared with us). The hero in Bilbo, in fact, could begin showing itself even before the spider battle, as early as the Trollshaws in fact, so that by the time they are at this point, we expect Bilbo to take the lead.
I’m definitely not defending this a a “good” thing. I’m thinking more in terms of how a moviemaker might approach this. For me, I’ll take the Took-Baggins dichotomy and Bilbo’s shining moment with the spiders any day of the week!
I just finished the last part of digest 3 and i had a thought on the troll scene that i think could work and be consistent with the shot of Gandalf raising his staff and the big light. I don’t think that Gandalf’s power extends to speeding up the sun to surprise the trolls. What he could do maybe is to cast a “magic” shadow to the east to block out the light of the approaching dawn. Probably could be done on film believably and allow for Gandalf to come to the rescue with the dawn by removing the shadow as the sun rises… and allow him to shout “the dawn take you”. It probably won’t go this way but I like it. I will go with answer “c”.
Chris Stevens (Felagundian)
Hey Guys!
Just wanted to say I think the dwarves can fight the trolls briefly AND be captured without breaking faith with the original story or the Lotr movies. Think about how hard it was for the fellowship to handle ONE troll. There are three of them in this clearing.
Also, I don’t think the time element should be an issue since Jackson could just suggest that it is very late, after midnight, when the party comes upon the trolls. He could even start a predawn glow when the trolls start getting into their quarrel and I don’t think the audience would notice it.
One last thing, Gandalf already did the voice-thing in Two Towers when he appeared to Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas in Fangorn Forest. What they did was blend McKellan’s voice with Lee’s to make it sound like it might be Saruman or Gandalf. I expect Jackson to do the same here with the trolls.
Thanks for joining the crew, Trish! You are very brave to take the stage with these other Tolkien nuts. Good luck!
Thank you Jordan! I am really grateful to Corey and Dave for trusting me with this stuff…I don’t take the honor lightly!
I agree with you on all points, and thanks for reminding me about that voice thing that Gandalf did in The Two Towers movie. Of course that was Gandalf 2.0, and he could have gained a talent for ventriloquism in the makeover….kidding!!!! With this in mind, having Gandalf throw his voice as part of the troll-fighting strategy is certainly a possibility.
Hey Dave and Trish,
Thanks for all the hard work you are doing in catching up the digest episodes!
I have a couple comments that are on different points:
1. I do not think there will be a talking purse. If this were Harry Potter I would say yes.
2. I thought up a horrific/numerous plot involving Azog.
At the battle of Azanulbizar Daine Iron foot is crushing Azogs throat after a long battle. Just before Azog dies, the watcher in the water wraps a tentacle around his leg and drags him in the lake and subsequently sets the Orc free. The giant squid is acting on orders from the necromancer who intends to use Azog to free the entombed nazgul. Diane was the only one who saw what happened to the Orc and assumes Azog is squid food. Thus the dwarves are surprised as Azogs presence at the battle of five armies. Azog wants revenge on Thorin because of the death of Bolg earlier in the Misty Mountains. Thorin obviously will want to avenge his kin. Azog mortally wounds Thorin but Thorin decapitates Azog.
This is rampant speculation and is intended for humor. I really don’t think this will happen.
3. I was looking at the entertainment weekly photos and he one about Galadriel has me wondering. Will she be 100% good in the films. The reason I say this is that she has not given up on ruling her own kingdom which was the reason she left Valinor. As we all remember she does. It pass the test until Frodo offers her the ring in the Fellowship. Will PJ & company show Galadriel either sense the presence of the Ring somehow or be tempted to seize Thorin’s ring assuming that He has it. I thought that if Gandalf thought Galadriel was being tempted it might explain his tears in the trailer.
Again speculation. When will y’all have a Galadriel espisode?
That’s all folks
Stephen from MO
oohh…a Galadriel episode! I’m putting that on my suggestion list for Corey and Dave.
Based on how Phillipa Boyens responded to a question (at ComicCon) about female roles in The Hobbit, it looks like Galadriel will be very much on the good side, and will also be participating in the Battle of Dol Guldur. Phillipa describes her as “the most powerful being on Middle-earth at this time,” which I’m not sure is completely accurate, but does give some insight into how the writers treat her character in the film.
Regarding a conversation you guys had about Jackson establishing Trolls turning to stone in his ME lore. It is definately in there, and not only that, but quite specifically too refering to these exact Trolls. Here is the transcript of the film dialogue as spoken by Bilbo to the children at the party, notice the last para, pretty specific. I think these are really interesting, and pretty much mean that these events have to at least be nodded to, not that it precludes magic too, or indeed, stops the dwarves charging in, and then being captured, as another poster suggested.
great work guys
Adam
Close on: Bilbo is relating stories of his adventure to a
group of young hobbit children.
BILBO
(melodramatic)
So, there I was…at the mercy of three
monstrous trolls…Have you ever heard of
a troll? Do you know what a Troll is?
Great big nasty twenty foot high smelly
things..and they’re arguing…arguing
about how they were going to cook us!
ANGLE ON: A LITTLE HOBBIT GIRL’S
upturned face…her eyes growing larger and larger.
BILBO
Whether it be turned on a spit or minced
in a pie or whether they were going to
sit on us one by one and squash us into
jelly! But they spent so long arguing
the whether-to’s and why-for’s that the
sun’s first light crept over the top of
the trees…and turned them all to stone!
There is a way that they could work in the talking purse. All you need to do is have some lovely hobbit girl walking in the woods talking with her talking purse. She could stop short and look up in terror at the three trolls. The scene could quickly shift to a shot of the purse now hanging off of one of the trolls belts. You could even have one of the trolls chewing on a bone, although that might be going too far.
In the end I do not believe the purse will be there, just trying to think outside of the cave.
Thanks
Robagast